ffs, in the 2017 and 2019 elections, Labour was ran by a socialist (jeremy corbyn), and “the party has been described as an alliance of social democrats, democratic socialists and trade unionists.”, so check your facts first
we don't have that much publicly owned infrastructure since th*tcher, with the bulk of it being the NHS, the BBC and some other smaller bodies. overall, thanks to privatisation, £250,000,000+ of taxpayer money is wasted every week
Owning things in socialism is a complete lie and you know that, that’s why you’re getting so defensive, because you cannot argue your case well and instead bark at me to, “do some research” and whatnot. Also, doing a bit of research has led me to this… this public ownership of things…. STILL EXIST! They still exist, and most things were still private back then too. And what’s even worse is that you argue, “Oh, public ownership of things were great in the UK, therefore we should be socialist.” That’s literally what you were arguing, when really the UK didn’t control the means of production, otherwise they would be socialist, which would actually have more devastating consequences, as their economy would’ve stagnated a lot faster. Take Vietnam for example, when they implemented socialism, Vietnam’s economy has stagnated for a long time, until they implemented capitalist policies. Why was that the case, huh? Also, the reason people voted for the Labour party is simply due to the fact they just wanted Tories out, not because they support their policies. In fact, the Labour Party, although left-wing, is still capitalist and has no interest in changing the capitalist UK. So your argument here makes absolutely no sense. If you don’t want to argue with me anymore, it would honestly be great if you did, because that proves that you can’t make a good argument that would make socialism a utopia, because you and I both know socialism is not the way to go.
how many fucking times do you have to get the message that you still own things in socialism, jeez
why would people vote for labour (when it isnt going through a period of “““new labour”””” where its not too far off just red tories) if they were going to take away everything they owned
and labour were entirely in favour of decolonisation, and immediately began doing that.
public ownership of things was great in the UK, until it all got privatised and then it got crap.
if you could even do the slightest amount of research and i didn't have to keep explaining the most basic things to you, then maybe we’d get somewhere
this is your warning that if you don't put any effort into your next posts then im not even gonna bother arguing with you anymore
i’m not letting an idiot drag me down to their level and beat me with experience
Oh… well still, the British empire still existed during post WW2.. and also, that wasn’t socialism. That was capitalism. In fact, after doing a bit of research, I found that Britain was the first country to implement capitalism and has been great from there. Also, I will admit a small error, as I did say that the potato famine during the British Empire was similar to socialism, yet I was wrong, as public ownership was not there yet, but the rest of my points still stand as public ownership of things controlled by the government have damaging consequences and that’s what should worry socialists, as in socialism, nothing you have is actually yours, including the car you drive or the house you live in. We believe in a capitalist society because they allow people to actually own the things they buy, including the house, car, etc. Socialism takes that away from us and I do not want to live a life where we own nothing and that all the hard work I do is pointless if I’m earning the same paycheck compared to someone who just lounges around all day doing nothing for society. That’s socialism in its finest, or even communism at its extreme.
youre gonna want to sit down for this
things werent publicly owned during the bulk of the british empire
i know, shocking
turns out the only socialist party that have ever formed a government in the uk werent even founded until 1900
do you think british history is “british empire ft irish potato famine → modern britain”
yeah trade unions werent even legal until about 20 years after the irish potato famine
i was referring to between the post-war period until the devil incarnate was elected, where there was strong support for nationalisation, strong trade unions, heavy regulation, higher taxes, and an extensive welfare state (that period being the only period where you could say that the uk was quite socialist)
do even the slightest amount of research first please because i just cant be bothered dealing with you any more
That is NOT what I’m saying. I never said that the UK was socialist, never. Where did I ever mention in my posts, “The UK was socialist?” It’s not there because I don’t think that way. Please read it in context before assuming such BS. I was saying that the UK publicly owned things (which was a part of your argument), and that it was similar to socialism, not that it’s the same thing. They are not the same and that was never my claim. Please please please actually read it in context before twisting my words like this. Thank you.
i can't be fucked with this anymore
you’re saying victorian-era britain was socialist
read a book. literally just any book
So you’re resorting to insults now? That's not a good look ngl. Also, you mentioned the UK as an argument so we might as well refer to its past when it was originally called the British Empire, since that was the time when most of everything was owned publicly, and was used against the Irish, which is very similar to what we have in socialism and communism today. We don’t think the UK had socialism during the British Empire when it was in place, but what we do know is that they did publicly own things, and what does socialism promote? Public ownership of all goods and services by the government. You used the UK as an argument of how bad capitalism is, told me that I was scared to mention the UK, and then you used insults like stupid and muppet when I actually did mention them. That’s a really awful look and that proves your inability to argue your case well. Do better next time. Or better yet, really reflect on your view on socialism and compare it to what socialism really is, because if you think socialism will be a magical utopia where everyone’s basic needs will actually be met and everyone (including the poor) will be prosperous under socialism and its government without any exploitation from anyone, let me tell you this… you need a brutal reality check, because your view is the complete opposite of reality.
when did i mention the british empire you muppet, do you genuinely think that we had socialism during the british empire and then after the british empire everything was privatised? you're not just wrong, you're stupid.
Lmao that’s a lie and you know that. Firstly, just because we didn’t mention the UK, doesn’t automatically mean that we “know how much better everything was when it was publically owned” because it wasn’t. Look at Ireland, the UK literally took away their food and put them in a potato famine because they wanted to be Catholic and they didn’t like it. And in the UK, things were publicly owned by the government, as you said, so everyone was at the mercy of the British Empire, hence why we are arguing against socialism and for capitalism. And if the empire was so great back then, why did countries like India, Canada, the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Bangladesh, Pakistan, etc declare independence? Because they wanted freedom, and the UK refused to give it to them. It’s the same in communism and socialism. We are not red-scared, we are simply informed individuals that will fight for our economic and civil liberties to be protected. This is the main purpose of creating this account. Guys, do not fall for socialism’s lies. They say we are scared but they don’t want to debunk anything we’ve said, because they can’t do it, which is why they are putting false assumptions and lies against us, a classic tactic in the socialist and communist nations. Don’t fall for them. We can’t let history repeat itself and spread everywhere. Follow us today to fight for our freedoms and liberties from lies and economic control.
you seem very reluctant to even acknowledge the uk so i assume you actually do know how much better everything was when it was publically owned, but your entire education you've just been red-scared into thinking “capitalism good others bad”
Again, neoliberalism does equate to capitalism, as said before. One country doing poorly with their nation does not mean the entire system is all horrible and we need to switch to socialism. Seriously, socialism doesn’t work, and there are examples of that in many countries that have tried socialism but ended up failing because of poor funding from the government because they just can’t afford to keep the people fed. Other socialist governments like Vietnam had to adopt capitalist policies because the economy has stagnated, because they realize that socialism doesn’t entirely work. Even China, a communist government, had to adopt capitalist policies because an economy that’s entirely communist doesn’t work either. Capitalism is superior and these two countries know that, that’s why these nations are successful.
greece is quite the example to use first considering stuff like this https://jacobin.com/2023/03/greece-railroad-accident-safety-austerity-privatization but obviously i have better things to do than go through every single one of those examples, so i’ll give this point. the uk was doing fine, if not great with a strong public industry. then successive neoliberal Tory governments, starting with the devil incarnate Th*tcher, privatised everything and gave us years and years of austerity. now everything’s crap.
FACT CHECK TIME!
(Note: We have already responded once to this, so go check that out first, but we thought we would do a fact check here as well)
Firstly, neoliberalism has nothing to do with capitalism since it’s been around way before this ideology came around, and there are plenty of capitalist countries that are not neoliberalist, such as Greece, Turkey, Singapore, South Korea, Switzerland, Monaco, North Macedonia, Russia, the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, the Maldives, the UAE, and a lot more. Secondly, how do you know that the socialist and communist governments in the world are not going to do the same thing? In a socialist government, they are the monopoly and we have to put all our trust in them, putting us at their mercy, which ends poorly a lot of times as the government has too much power over the economy and how it’s run. Now am I saying that capitalism doesn’t have its problems either? No, but unlike a socialist government, a capitalist government has often times held companies accountable for any exploitation and harmful actions done to the public time and time again, and corrupt government officials are also called out for their crimes too, holding them accountable. Best of all, privatization allows freedom for every person to own things and to own property and to own the things they have to meet their basic needs and help others. That’s the reason capitalism is better and more rewarding and freer than socialism.
you named 5 communist countries. you clearly don't know how much was better in the uk before successive neoliberal governments privatised everything. now, the free market has decided it's efficent to just not have half the trains work, it's efficent to dump unfiltered sewage into rivers, it's efficent to only run buses where it’s profitable so rural areas are left out. and this has all cost us billions.
FACT CHECK TIME!
A country with a lack of safety and everyone’s basic needs not being met does NOT equate to capitalism. On the contrary, many places like Switzerland, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Singapore, Taiwan, Ireland, Hong Kong, Japan, Monaco, Andorra, South Korea, Portugal, New Zealand, and Australia all have the lowest homelessness rates, the highest qualities of life, and least amount of homelessness and starvation.
And since we are on the topic of living in a dangerous world where most people can barely feed themselves except two people with 500 yachts, let’s talk about countries like Venezuela, Cuba, Eritrea, Laos, and North Korea. Let’s ask those countries how they are doing right now under a socialist government with starvation, homelessness, oppression, and danger, except for a small group of people ruling the nations with lavish lifestyles that only those people under socialist nations can even DREAM OF. Talk about exploitation, and yet they’re calling the capitalists out for it. Maybe don’t falsely accuse us of encouraging exploitation by elites next time without even considering how horrible these people in the socialist (and communist nations) are being exploited by their own government. At least with capitalism, we have more freedom and higher living standards, and it worked out well for dozens of countries adopting capitalism across the world.
Join capitalism today, as we advocate for the facts against the facade of socialism and communism.
comments
Off the top of my head I can only name like 4 publicly owned things in the UK:
The NHS
The BBC
Channel 4
Scottish Water
yep, and even Channel 4 recieves no public funding and is funded by its commercial activities